starting a fridge on gas without a second battery

[jawjaw]

hi all
i have a logic unit, no leisure battery. i have got the fridge working during my first outing when on 240 volt hook up. i think it may have worked when driving with the dashboard fridge button pressed in.
The fridge has automatic ignition requiring a constant electrical supply. I have tried many combinations of the switches on the logic unit. I don't understand what they all do. All the gas knobs are on . the cooker works fine.
i get no lights or clicking with the fridge gas knob pressed in and turned to 3 from the small fridge rocker switch in any position. no flame.

I must be doing something wrong.

I cant think of what else to try.

any idea's please to get the fridge working. Will it have to drain the vehicle battery to work, and will this effect the 12volt lights etc.

many thanks from a new romahomer.

[jayjay]

Jun 10, 2008 8:11:26 GMT jawjaw said:

hi all
i have a logic unit, no leisure battery. i have got the fridge working during my first outing when on 240 volt hook up. i think it may have worked when driving with the dashboard fridge button pressed in.
The fridge has automatic ignition requiring a constant electrical supply. I have tried many combinations of the switches on the logic unit. I don't understand what they all do. All the gas knobs are on . the cooker works fine.
i get no lights or clicking with the fridge gas knob pressed in and turned to 3 from the small fridge rocker switch in any position. no flame.

I must be doing something wrong.

I cant think of what else to try.

any idea's please to get the fridge working. Will it have to drain the vehicle battery to work, and will this effect the 12volt lights etc.

many thanks from a new romahomer.

Hi! Try typing your make/model of fridge into google and add the words '+manual' (only without the 'quotation marks'), as there may be one you can download.

If it's working on EHU, it 'should' work on gas. Make sure there isn't a second switch somewhere to turn on the gas to the fridge - even tho my 'van/fridge are quite old, I have a separate gas switch to switch on the supply to the fridge - the times I've tried to light it without turning the switch on!!!

i get no lights or clicking with the fridge gas knob pressed in and turned to 3 from the small fridge rocker switch in any position. no flame. Are you looking in the right place for a spark? Mine is right at the back, requiring sticking rear end out of 'van, face on the floor, and looking thru the little spyhole right to the back of the fridge. Mine has a piezo igniter though, which is a manual, not electrical ignitor. Is the ignitor clicking at all? Try all positions on the fridge controls until you hear the clicking sound, then that's that bit sorted.

If there is no clicking at any point, then you may have to get someone to check that the ignitor is actually connected and working or maybe faulty and fit a replacement.

You also have to hold in the gas knob for ages if it hasn't been lit for a while, takes ages for the gas to come through the pipe. You might have to try a combination of moves - something like holding down the gas knob on 3 whilst clicking the ignition at the same time. Also, after it's lit, you need to keep the gas button pressed in for around 30 seconds to get it to stay on.

As far as I know, a small electrical ignitor shouldn't take up much leisure battery power - I've left my spotlights on overnight on 2 occasions now and it hasn't drained the leisure battery power.

Another thing - you have a dashboard switch for the fridge, make sure this isn't on when trying to light it on gas as it probably isolates the fridge. 12 volt operation is only to be used when the 'van is actually moving, with the engine on. It will drain your engine battery really quickly when you stop (the 12v should be connected to the car battery, not the leisure battery for 12v operation). I don't use mine for this very reason - it doesn't get the fridge cold on it's own anyay and only maintains the temp it starts at. I use freezer blocks and keep food cool by turning it into a freezer box for the journey, then gas when I'm parked up for the night. I only have a 2way, so its just gas for me!

Good luck, let us know how you go on!

[Graham]

Hi JawJaw

There is a manual to download on our main website HERE

Not sure if its for your fridge but might be worth a look.

Graham

[jawjaw]

Hi thanks for your reply.

The saga of the fridge continues. Yesterday evening i continued my investigation of the fridge. in the bench locker ad aJacenta to the fridge there is a disconnected Protex air heater.i was tolled by the seller that it was waiting to be installed by the previous owner. I found two taped wires near by which seem to be connected to the 12v socket on the opposite bench side. There seemed to be no indication how the gas was run to the heater previously, marks on the base of the locker and 2 1"pipes below the floor indicating that a heater had previously been installed. From reading previous articles i thought the gas pipes to the fridge go under the floor outside the van. Looking under the van no gas pipes are to be seen. But they must be there some were as the supply goes from the 2 isolation taps behind the sink door to the cooker, which works fine. I thought that during the disconnection of the protex heater the gas to the fridge may have been disconnected.
I next had read about a yellow wire for the fridge. and had a look at the back of the logic switch panel near the water tank. This has 2 rocker switches. Right hand one marked top VEH, bottom AUX with off in center. The left hand switch marked 12volt at top and off at the bottom. The panel has an indicator light that changes from green, red and a sort of cream co lour.
trying to follow the the circuit copied from this site (Thank you Malcolm) i compared the wires. they were all there except one that is marked for the leisure battery. A couple of thin wires seemed back to front jugging by the colours but seemed to be OK from the circuit diagram.
plugged in the 240 volt from the house and all interior lights worked. Red switch on the charger was alight. tried the fridge rocker switch again, looked through the spy hole still no sound. clicking or light on the rocker switch.
decided to start the engine and see if that helped. THE VEHICLE BATTERY HAD GONE FLAT. Some how during my switching last evening i had left some thing on that caused the battery to go flat.
I switched the panel switch to veh and the light went green and about 1 hour later i was able to start the van.

I disconnected the 240v cable left the rocker switch in the off position and the 12v switch of. double checked the fridge switch on the dash board and locked up.

Hope the battery isn't flat again tomorrow. Seems the other owner was a bit of a wiz with wiring. " extra speakers and a rear camera with dash board mounted screen. Very handy. I wish i could locate him to ask him what the extra modification's involved and what some of the extra switches and wires did.

[jayjay]

Jun 12, 2008 7:54:20 GMT jawjaw said:

Hi thanks for your reply.

...decided to start the engine and see if that helped. THE VEHICLE BATTERY HAD GONE FLAT. Some how during my switching last evening i had left some thing on that caused the battery to go flat.
I switched the panel switch to veh and the light went green and about 1 hour later i was able to start the van.

I disconnected the 240v cable left the rocker switch in the off position and the 12v switch of. double checked the fridge switch on the dash board and locked up.

Hope the battery isn't flat again tomorrow. Seems the other owner was a bit of a wiz with wiring. " extra speakers and a rear camera with dash board mounted screen. Very handy. I wish i could locate him to ask him what the extra modification's involved and what some of the extra switches and wires did.

It's always the fridge that causes the probs, it seems! I have taped up my 12v switch so that it can't get switched on by mistake or accident!

Did you run the van around the block a few times to charge up the van battery from the alternator? It's a good idea to do this if you've run it flat.

Follow the gas pipes from appliances back to the source - ie. the gas bottle. From what you say, if there are two taps in the cupboard, one will be for the cooker and the other will be for the fridge.

I think you may have to pull the fridge out (you will probably have to dismantle the cooker above to release it, if it's housed properly. Leave it connected and just check around the back to see if there are any loose wires or blocked pipes. Then see if you can get that ignition switch to work, without it you can't light the gas, even if it is working.

As it's working on EHU, at least you know there is coolant inside it and it is working on electric, so that's a start!

[ant]

When all else fails, try using a hot air gun or hair dryer and blowing warm air under the fridge while the ignitor is switched on. The electronic sparker box is very sussepable to the damp and if its not been used for a while will need warming up.
Ant

[jawjaw]

Thanks Ant I will try that next.

The investigation to date.
I sat down and made a chart of when the lights work with various combinations of switches. I was wondering if the logic panel has been wired wrong as the lights and pump seem to work when the 12v switch is turned off. Is this normal?

Back to the fridge.
i removed the sink to have a look at the gas pipes that the gas cooker and fridge knobs control in case there was an extra pipe to the Propex heater that is lying disconnected in the bunk. There was only the cooker and gas pipe. these disappeared down the back of the of the cupboard and magically rise the other side of the kitchen area to feed the fridge and cooker. I cant trace the bit in between.
I next bravely removed the cooker and had a look inside at the top of the fridge etc. I found an unexpected isolating gas STOPCOCK to the cooker. I was wondering if there could be another isolating gas STOPCOCK that isolates the fridge. Could that be turned off?
I looked through the grill at the bottom of the fridge and saw a jumble of wires. A yellow and white going to a small connecting block. 3 others (blue) going the red on off switch.
I managed to get the grill off after undoing the very tight lock nut on the gas control valve. The gas knob pulling of with a bit of a tug.
I used a multimeter on the yellow and white wires which i believe are the supply for the 12v element and the ignition. Could be wrong about the 12v element supply bit.
The yellow and white gave a voltage reading over 12 volts.so it seems i am getting electric to the fridge. This supply to the yellow and white wire seemed to be connected at all combinations of the logic unit switches. Must some how be coming from the vehicle battery directly?
My next investigation will be to try Ant's advice and warm it up underneath with an air drier.

I searched the net and came across the Dometic site. They have a lot of information on the fridge, its installation and various other models.

Thanks every one for your help.
John

[jawjaw]

Hi all
it's me again.
i have tried many times to change -- Gas thingy -- too --gas thingy.
in the above so have given up and added this.

as you can see i am just learning how to use the forum.

john

[Pauline]

Jun 16, 2008 17:24:01 GMT jawjaw said:

Hi all
it's me again.
i have tried many times to change -- Gas thingy -- too --gas thingy.
in the above so have given up and added this.

as you can see i am just learning how to use the forum.

john

Hello John

It is probably nothing you are doing wrong - the forum has a censored word list and if you post what it thinks of as a 'rude' word it changes the word to something more appropriate or if it can't find a suitable word it uses 'thingy'.

I assume perhaps you were trying to say "gas stopcock" or something similar in your post?

The censoring can be quite amusing - you should see some of Yamaha's jokes sometimes! ;D

[jawjaw]

HI all its me again.

I tried the hair drier on the fridge the other night. First i removed the bottom grill and checked if there was a supply going to the yellow and white connector block. there was Over 13.2 volts, not bad for a 12 volt system. I turnt the 12 volt switch on the logic unit on (its wired back to front) to turn the electric off.Then i checked the continuity of the fridge rocker switch. Good connection between the central pin and the left one with switch in the on and off position. but nothing to the right hand connection. I think this may be a wire to the led light in the switch.

I gave the electronic ignition unit a good warm , twice with the hair drier BUT UNFORTUNATELY NO LIFE FROM THE SWITCH OR THE IGNITER.

I think that reference to starting the fridge on 9 volts may by connecting the 2 wires from the yellow an white terminal block to the 9 volt battery. this would then get a supply to the ignition circuit. A bit of a problem with the fridge in place unless you run a couple of wire between the block and a battery outside the fridge.

It looks like i will have to remove the fridge to play with wires under .neath. But not until we come back from our second trip in the van. We are getting very daring, going for 2 nights this time to Sunny Clacton.

P.s. any pointers in getting the fridge out. I was particularly thinking of the flue connection. It must be very tricky getting it on and off.

John

pps another site for fridge information is Obriens camping.

[jawjaw]

HI ALL ITS THAT FRIDGE AGAIN.
We had a great 2 nights at Clacton. i was surprised at the number of caravans and camper vans that arrived and went during this time. Yes you can tell we are new to the game.
TO CARRY ON THE FRIDGE INVESTIGATION. I.E. NO SPARK FOR GAS.
I had to bite the bullet and decided to have a look under the fridge.
first i had one last try to see if it was working BUT NO GOOD.
This involved taking the top off the cooker and undoing the 2 fixing screws carefuly lifting the cooker body and then undoing the green and yellow earthing wire. the cooker was then placed safely out of the way at the end of the van. The gas pipe had a stopcock on it but as the gas was taunt off at the bottle i just undid the compression joint and gently eased the connection apart.
i removed the top and bottom grills from the fridge to make it easier to handle the fridge, then the 6 screws on the 3 brackets holding the top of the fridge to the fiberglass cooker base.

The fridge is held in place by the flue chimney. this has a black "T" piece on top held by a small screw. To remove this involved removing the external grill, plastic cap and aluminum backing plate and 6" flue. This slips over the black "T" piece on the fridge flue.
I could now remove the "T" shaped flue and the fridge was loose.

I gently eased the fridge out and taunt it side ways so that he door rested on the step, taking care not to stretch the connecting wires.

the are a yellow and white wires going to the igniter. a yellow and white wires going to the heater ( 12 volt) these came out of a common black Sheff.
A 3 core white cable went to the 240 volt heater.
I hooked the van up to 240 volt and checked the supply to the igniter double terminal block. This had 13 volt . this supply went through the rocker switch on the front of the fridge to the igniter block where i again was getting 13 volt.
The spark probe registers the Resistance between the probe and earth. the flame reduces this resistance and the igniter stops sparking. hence damp or a bad connection can fool the igniter into thinking that the flame is alight. Could this be the reason.
I undid the 3 screws holding on the tin protective cover round the burner block. this reveled the small cubic gas burner housing. I then eased off the side covers by springing it open easing it over the small round lugs each side.
I could now see the burner , spark probe and the gas valve thermocouple.
I gave them all a good clean wiggled all the connecting spades and gave then a squrt of WD40. I tried for a spark again STILL NO LUCK.
i removed the spark probe gave it a good clean and checked it between the wire prob, body etc not earthing out .
as the probe was now dangling away from any metal it must be showing a high resistance to the igniter block. the block should try to fire the igniter and make a clicking sound. NOTHING.
CONCLUSION THE IGNITER BLOCK IS FAULTY.

THE IGNITER is refereed to as RM model 679. can be supplied in england Code IG0227 (have not got the company name handy) it will pop up on the INTERNET.
Dome tic the present owner of the Electrolux fridge seems too be an international company with many repairers in America. There the part gose under the item number of 2931132119

This small plastic box of trick's about the size of 2 boxes of matches cost about £60 new.
do i want to spend that much when so far the fridge works so well when we are plugged into the mains.
An alternative would be it fit a £5 manual igniter the same as the two way fridges. The only advantage of the electronic igniter is it is supposed to spark if the flame goes out.
I checked to see if the gas was getting through. its OK.

Well Gang it has been an up hill struggle. i now have to decide what to do about it. Preferably a good second hand one from America on Ebay for about £5.
A bit of a gamble.
The rating on the igniter is 12V DC 50 Ma.

i Managed to have a chat with a previous owner, Got his name from the log book. Len is a really great Guy and we spent a pleasant hour. chatting about Romerhomes and what all the extra bit's do. He said that the fridge had worked 2 years ago but since then had not used it on gas due to the availability of power on his favorite sites,

Well every thing is back in place and we are looking forward to our next adventure.

John
P.S. Any one got a spare electronic fridge igniter.

[jayjay]

This small plastic box of trick's about the size of 2 boxes of matches cost about £60 new.
do i want to spend that much when so far the fridge works so well when we are plugged into the mains.
An alternative would be it fit a £5 manual igniter the same as the two way fridges. The only advantage of the electronic igniter is it is supposed to spark if the flame goes out.
I checked to see if the gas was getting through. its OK.

My goodness, that all sounds very complicated!

Personally I'd go for the manual igniter. There's a thermo-coupler when fridges are working on gas, which will cut off the gas if the flame goes out anyway.

Here's a good place for parts - Currys partmaster store:

www.partmaster.co.uk/cgi-bin/catalogue.pl?section=67607

[jawjaw]

HI JAYJAY

Thanks for your comment. I had forgotten about the safety provided by the thermocouple cut off if the gas goes out. I had wondered about unlit gas collecting behind the fridge.It is a very good point and will certainly effect my decision. Have you ever had the flame blow out in your travels.

by the way i have enjoyed some of your entries on this site. I am beginning to find my way around. there is such a lot of interesting things and information from other roamers

As we have only had the van about a month i decided to have it serviced. No problems. I must admit i was a bit surprised to see a charge for disposal of the oil from the sump. I have never seen this before. The chap in the garage said that this has been the case for 2 years, as he has now has to pay to have it taken away.
It reminded me of an article i had read that said an enterprising person was collecting cooking oil from fish shops and restaurants for free. This he sieved and sold to use as fuel to people driving diesel engine vehicles. I expect he had to declare this to the customers and excise so that he could pay the tax on it.
my next thought was i wonder if the romerhome would run on cooking oil. it would probably smell like a fish shop. Then i would not want to do any thing that would cause any problems to my pride and joy.
I wonder how the price of cooking oil conspires with diesel per liter.

Why do car adverts still quote motors in miles per gallon when we buy fuel in liters.

has the increase in fuel effected any ones decision of distance to go on their travels.

I cant wait to go on trip number 3. Another over the week end jaunt. MAGIC.

John

[jayjay]

Hi Jawjaw!

Nope the gas has never blown out on my travels - and I've been to Harris and Lewis, the windiest isles in the UK!

From what I understand, diesel engines will run on veg oil, but you have to dilute it with something (can't remember what, but a search on google will find it) or some ppl dilute it with regular diesel 50-50. If you buy from a supermarket though, it's nearly the same price as diesel anyway - my local supermarket is now charging £1.39 per litre. So you'd have to buy in bulk to get a saving or it wouldn't be worth the trouble.

I've also heard that the exhaust will smell like chip shop, however, a friend of mine came last night, he runs his on 50-50 as it didn't smell awful or anything - I thought his engine sounded rough though! Apparantly used veg oil which is then filtered, is better than new oil, as it's too thick hence thinning it down with something. After using for cooking, it is thinned down a bit.

I still wouldn't risk it myself, although I don't have a diesel engine anyway! All depends on the risk vs. money saving.

Enjoy trip no 3!

[jawjaw]

Hi All THE SAGER OF THE FRIDGE CONTINUES AGAIN.

During my investigations I located an electronic igniter in England for about £60. This seemed a lot for such a small item. On the web I found a company ASAP Advanced Services And Parts. The details and picture seemed the same as the one on my Dometic fridge (12V 50Ma). The company was in America and the electronic igniter was priced at $30 but postage was $30. This gave a grand total of $60 – just over £35 in real money. Should I take a gamble and order one.
I sent an e mail and asked if they sent to the UK, a quick reply said they did but be sure to highlight the UK when ordering or I could order over the phone.
I Bit the built and ordered the item and paid by pay pal. I was very surprised when the item arrived in 6 days. Well packed and safe.
The big test was to come. Was it the right item and was this the problem with the fridge.
I took out the fridge again and rested it on the step in the van using a small plastic step to hold the fridge up in a working position. I disconnected the ignition wire and made a note of the colors of the 3 wires that supply and control the unit. The new electronic igniter looked identical. I carefully removed the wires and undid the 2 screws fixing the unit into place. Then I attached the wires to the new unit and screwed it back into place. Would it operate? To my great joy the igniter started to spark as soon as I switched on the fridge rocker switch.. I turned on the gas and set the igniter sparking for over a minute and held in the gas button but no joy. Next I removed the wind break round the gas jet and ignition prob. The spark was jumping to the gas probe it should light.
In desperation I got the hand igniter we use for the cooker and held the gas button in and let the cooker igniter flame play on the gas probe. Slowly after about a minute a small blue flam appeared on the probe. it gradually got bigger. I slowly removed the igniter flame and the fridge probe stayed alight. I turned off the fridge gas button to extinguish the flame. And then turn it on again I then switched on the fridge electric rocker switch the fridge igniter sparked and the flame lit up. After a about 30 seconds I released the gas button and it stayed alight.. After all my investigation on the net it had paid of.
I replaced the wind baffles round the probe and refitted the fridge into place. I tried the new electronic igniter again. The fridge light up quickly and I left it going for 15 min. and sat back pleased that I had taken the gamble and ordered the new electronic igniter from America. I can definitely recommend ASAP for quick fridge parts.

Our last trip was very windy for a couple of days and I must say that the awning stayed up well although it rocked about a bit. The first time we had not good weather.
We are looking forward to our next trip in a few weeks time.

I was wondering if it is now necessary to fit a leisure battery as the fridge and cooker are now working on gas and we only need light. Once the fridge is running the electric power could be turn off to it. .

Any C15’s out there with a leisure battery. Were it fitted and what size is it. How do you charge it up?