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Post by viv on Aug 26, 2009 7:39:21 GMT
What a difference there is in the price of Gas bottles. We have had to buy three over last few months. Most expensive was Camping and Caravan Club at £20, second was £17 at Chichester Caravans and last week we stopped at a small garage in Wales and same thing was £9.99 !!
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Post by Graham on Aug 26, 2009 15:04:50 GMT
That's certainly a huge price variation but how did you manage to get through 3 gas bottles in a few months? We just changed ours which lasted 10 months.
Graham
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Post by viv on Aug 27, 2009 16:18:44 GMT
I think our bottles must be smaller 2.72 kilogrammes, I just checked. We have noticed that we get through one about every two/three weeks and we only use it for cooking and that would be the occasional breakfast and one gas ring for dinner. I always boil the water in electric kettle first to save gas and we use electric for fridge.
I would be interested in hearing if that does seem to be unusual. We are always running out. This one is our third bottle this year.
We did have two weeks in Northumberland, two weeks in Yorkshire and just had the 16 days in Wales. We did have to run the fridge on one of these trips as the electric switch was playing up.
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Post by Graham on Aug 27, 2009 16:31:44 GMT
Hi Viv,
Admitedly ours are 4.7kg but it does sound to me as if you are using excessive gas, I don't want to alarm you but do you think you might have a leak?
As I say ours lasted 10 months and we try to use gas whenever we can so we don't pay for electric. As you know the Dimension has an oven and one of my favourite meals is pizza so we often have the oven on for an hour or so plus we have four gas rings, gas fridge and water heater.
What amount of gas do others use? Perhaps our van is particularly frugal with gas.
Graham
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wheelmon
50+ posts.... 3 wheels on my wagon!
Posts: 51
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Post by wheelmon on Aug 27, 2009 19:09:26 GMT
I use the Camping Gaz 907 which seems to be the same as yours, viv. I carry two so there's always a standby as long as I replace the empty one pretty sharpish.
On a recent trip to France I replaced a bottle twice during the 3 weeks. I think I came back with roughly what I went with so you could say 1 bottle lasted about a week and a half.
I didn't use EHU so that included fridge, hot water and cooking (mainly pressure cooker which I consider to be an economic way of cooking a load of veg). The fridge setting is on 1 and a half - any more and the tomatoes become snooker balls.
I would say that yours sounds about the same, viv.
Camping Gaz does seem a lot dearer than Calor but 2 dealers have told me that Camping Gaz goes further than Calor Gas Kg for Kg. I always thought that Camping Gaz was just ordinary Butane gas but both dealers said it was a mix. Does anyone know if there is a difference between Camping Gaz and Calor butane? Ant, perhaps? I think the pressure is different but I can't see that making a difference to consumption.
Keith
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Post by viv on Aug 27, 2009 19:30:33 GMT
Ours is a blue bottle not sure exactly what but it has been gas safety checked and has been done again very recently. It has always used the bottles as quickly.
wheelmon, where do you keep the spare bottle?
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wheelmon
50+ posts.... 3 wheels on my wagon!
Posts: 51
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Post by wheelmon on Aug 27, 2009 20:41:48 GMT
Viv, the two 907's go one behind the other in the gas locker on the nearside of the 'van (Duo - see avatar). Each fits into a plastic cradle screwed to the inside wall of the locker (I assume these are original fittings) and is held in place by a strap. The last one in only just fits through the gap but once in there there's also enough room in the locker for two smallish fiamma plastic levelling ramps. Both bottles have a regulator fitted; with a short length of orange rubber gas pipe and quick-release in-line connector (the half with the shut-off valve in it). The orange rubber pipe which supplies the van has the male half of the quick-release connector so when the gas bottle runs out I just turn all the taps off and swap the supply pipe over to the full bottle.
Hope that makes sense!!!
Keith
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Post by viv on Aug 27, 2009 20:55:00 GMT
Thanks Keith
I will have a look in morning but think there is only room for one bottle in our little locker on side of the Outlook.
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Post by ant on Aug 28, 2009 8:40:53 GMT
Butane ( Pure) will only evaporate properly down to a temp of 5 degrees C Propane will evaporate when the temp goes below freezing, Camping Gaz is mainly butane but has a small amount of propane mixed with it so that the gas doesn't freeze( stay liquid in the bottle) when you're using it in large volumes. If you make a large demand on the gas bottle the temp of the bottle drops as the gas is drawn off, in a larger Calor bottle it's rarely a problem but in a small camping gaz bottle ( 907, 904, 901 ) it soon gets too cold for pure butane to evaporate so a small amount of propane helps in this respect. Butane burns with a cleaner flame than propane, its molecular structure is 1 hydrocarbon molecule less than propane. As for the usage rates I've not noticed very much difference but I suppose there must be some .
Ant
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wheelmon
50+ posts.... 3 wheels on my wagon!
Posts: 51
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Post by wheelmon on Aug 28, 2009 10:36:32 GMT
Many thanks Ant for taking the time to explain that. No doubt partly accounts for the dearer price. I pay £17.49 locally.
Keith
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Post by viv on Aug 28, 2009 16:57:19 GMT
It is a bit of a problem not knowing when the camping gas cylinder is getting empty. Everything is fine in the evening and then in the morning, just as you are looking forward to boiled eggs or even better, a good fry up, you discover you have no gas!
We seem to get through a canister quite quickly and it is not always easily available; last week in Wales we had to travel miles and to two towns before we found some.
Can anyone say if it is safe to carry a spare and where in an Outlook?
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Post by jayjay on Aug 28, 2009 18:30:17 GMT
Hi Viv, I always carry a spare! Only Gaz bottles (small) fit into my lockers and my fridge is on gaz only (at £17.50 a go, I might add!) All unopened, unused gas bottles are sealed aren't they? Do you have to break a seal on the others - I only know gaz ones. I have space for two and a full one is heavy, doesn't shift about. I have mine attached to the side of the locker with bungee straps, but cargo straps would be better. The minute one runs out, I go and get another. The one I attached not long ago was purchased last year in the Highlands (at £26 a go - rip off!!!!) but it's peace of mind. The other way to go is to carry a little spare butane cooker in a suitcase. And me wee vannie is up for sale on EBay - and shortly on here too.... getting too much to own two vehicles  , so I'm downgrading to trailor tent hopefully! JayJay  |
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Post by Graham on Aug 28, 2009 22:02:14 GMT
When we had our Duo we could get two 907's in the outside lockers and it was just a simple matter of changing over when one ran out and getting a refill when we could.
I'm surprised there isn't room in the Outlook for two bottles.
Graham
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Post by djsooz on Aug 28, 2009 22:29:40 GMT
Hi, I sympathise Jay Jay. I also paid 26 quid for my camping gas up north which was the most expensive I've ever paid. The cheapest was £16 I think. I have my camping gas in the gas locker (a 904 I think) which is what fits in my hi top. I also keep a spare of the same size which I carry inside the van 'til I get to my destination then it lives outside. That way I never run out of gas. I've seen advice on here that you should never carry camping gaz inside the van, but since this is the same size cannister that I used while I was in a tent to fuel my camp cooker at the time, I take the risk. I've spent years carrying the same thing in the boot of a car then taking it outside when I put up my tent so I don't see a problem. As a result I always replace one when it empties and I always have a spare so none of that running out of gas halfway through cooking.  Its the only thing that travels in the 'well' just inside the door so its 'well' aired! ;D Sooz. |
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Post by viv on Aug 29, 2009 17:05:45 GMT
Graham
Our Outlook only has one outside locker for the gas. I suppose we could exchange the cylinder for a larger one but we would still have the problem of running out unexpectedly, albeit less often. May have to think about that.
However do you have to swap like for like, which would mean having to pay for the whole bottle again and lose the deposit on the smaller one? Not sure how it works.
You mention 10 months but do you have any idea approx how many days camping that was for? I really do want to go to places without electric as the van is really self sufficient. We have only noticed how much gas we use this year as we have been away for so many trips since April and have used gas more (but not exclusively).
I suppose what you save on hook up more than covers cost of gas. We have paid £3 per night on occasions just for a cuppa in morning.
I like Pizza too but have to do it in my double skillet - no oven!
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Post by Derek on Aug 29, 2009 17:37:44 GMT
It is a bit of a problem not knowing when the camping gas cylinder is getting empty. Everything is fine in the evening and then in the morning, just as you are looking forward to boiled eggs or even better, a good fry up, you discover you have no gas! We seem to get through a canister quite quickly and it is not always easily available; last week in Wales we had to travel miles and to two towns before we found some. Can anyone say if it is safe to carry a spare and where in an Outlook? Hi Viv You can fit a 901 cylinder in your locker together with the 907. We just used the 901 to keep us going till we replaced the empty 907. The price of a 901 refill is really silly so it is best to replace the 907 as quickly as possible. Derek |
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Post by Graham on Aug 29, 2009 20:32:57 GMT
You mention 10 months but do you have any idea approx how many days camping that was for? Not really sure how many nights, perhaps we go camping less than you do. We did have a fortnight in France and a week in this country plus quite a few long weekends i.e. Friday, Saturday and Sunday night. Graham |
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Post by viv on Aug 30, 2009 21:49:59 GMT
Thanks Graham, It may be then that we are only using an average amount after all. We have been away for lots of weekends as well as the longer periods. I think though that we will have to look at getting a smaller spare bottle particularly if the fridge has to be run on it.
Hope all goes well for the rally and will think of you all while I am in St Ives on my walking holiday.
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Post by Graham on Aug 31, 2009 9:07:16 GMT
Hope all goes well for the rally and will think of you all while I am in St Ives on my walking holiday. Hi Viv, Dave has had to cancel the meet as not enough people wanted to come to qualify for the discount price but I believe Niloc and Diccon and Debbie are still going but paying full price. Have fun in St. Ives, hope the weather stays fine for you. Graham |
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Post by niloc on Aug 31, 2009 19:34:14 GMT
Actually, I think Graham must be visited by the Gas Fairygodmother if it is 10 months between bottles. We used a a 3.9kg Propane bottle in three weeks away this year and it is only used for cooking and, rarely, for the fridge, as space and water heating is all diesel. Admitedly, Janet is a bit of a whizz with a wok, but I still think Viv is about an average user.
So come on Graham, sprinkle some of that Fairy dust our way so we can keep prices down.
Colin
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roamingsue
50+ posts.... 3 wheels on my wagon!
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Post by roamingsue on Aug 31, 2009 19:56:14 GMT
Personally I think the way to go eventually will be to have a refillable system fitted to the motorhome. Dealing with cylinders and switching etc really does not make sense now we have autogas. The trouble is of course retrofitting is expensive... but a few motorhomes out there are now beginning to fit it as a standard fit... I have a feeling that will evenutally become the norm.
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Post by Graham on Aug 31, 2009 20:41:39 GMT
Actually, I think Graham must be visited by the Gas Fairygodmother if it is 10 months between bottles. We used a a 3.9kg Propane bottle in three weeks away this year and it is only used for cooking and, rarely, for the fridge, as space and water heating is all diesel. Admitedly, Janet is a bit of a whizz with a wok, but I still think Viv is about an average user. So come on Graham, sprinkle some of that Fairy dust our way so we can keep prices down. Colin Well, I'm amazed, no wonder everyone is moaning about the price of gas if you all use your gas that quick. Ours was definitely 10 months because I made a note of when we changed it and popped it on top of the gas bottle so I saw it when it ran out. I hope the gas fairy godmother stays with us a bit longer. Graham |
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Post by glenw on Aug 31, 2009 21:18:05 GMT
we are with Graham on this one, gas seems to last us a lot longer than 3 weeks. When we bought our van it had a "part full" camping gaz large canister. That was in nov. We have used the van for about 28 nights away and its still in use. We have a back up full cylinder with us for when it packs in. In the romahome, we never opened a full cylinder, it also had a part full cylinder and we were given 2 more part full cylinders, 1 of which we left in the van when we sold it on! We don't have an oven and we always turn off at the cylinder straight after use. The fridge isn't gas powered though. I guess we have some fairy dust too!!
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Post by Graham on Aug 31, 2009 21:22:27 GMT
we are with Graham on this one, gas seems to last us a lot longer than 3 weeks. Thank goodness, I was beginning to think I was going mad.  |
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Post by barry5933 on Sept 3, 2009 10:06:00 GMT
In our old HyLo (which had the same gas cupboard as the Outlook) we kept a 907 cylinder and a small 901 standby. During 2008 we spent 72 nights away using gaz for cooking only (augmented by microwave for some quick meals) so gaz consumption was very low. We had also used the van during 2007 for about 20 - 30 nights (records are not currently to hand). I believe we changed the main cylinder once as a precaution and never needed to fall back to the reserve.
It would seem to depend very much on the individual's pattern of cooking/heating/fridge use as to how much fuel is used.
Incidentally, we had several overnight temperatures well below freezing but never experienced failure of the butane gaz supply, I suspect that the cylinder was kept above freezing because the cupboard absorbs heat from the van interior.
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Post by aggsandrog on Sept 4, 2009 8:07:25 GMT
Viv.... Just a thought; make sure you have a sound rubber washer under your regulator.
.... Roger
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Post by wendy on Sept 22, 2009 8:38:34 GMT
Just to add my two penn'orth to this. Our last cylinder (3.9kg Calor propane) lasted for 16 nights on sites with no facilities and no EHU. So it was used for fridge, cooking and water heating. Once on site our van doesn't move for 4 or 5 days, so the fridge runs continuously on gas.
That works out at less than £1 per day, which compares very favourably with the £3+ charged by most sites for EHU.
If we have EHU we use no gas.
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wheelmon
50+ posts.... 3 wheels on my wagon!
Posts: 51
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Post by wheelmon on Sept 25, 2009 10:35:51 GMT
In view of the high cost of Camping Gaz I have been considering 'permanently' fitting a Gaslow 6kg refillable bottle in the cupboard under the sink (removal for servicing would only be necessary after 15 years from what info I have gathered). It would be boxed in and sealed off from the inside of the living quarters and vented at floor level into the existing gas locker (which is already vented through its floor. My Roma is a 1999 Duo without the toilet option and I would lose about half of the fixed shelf and half of the storage space below the shelf. The cutlery 'drawer' would stay. The filling inlet would be fixed inside the existing gas locker on a special bracket supplied by Gaslow and there would be no rubber piping - special bendable stainless steel lined piping is supplied with the filling kit.
My only snag is the access to the shut-off tap on the bottle itself - this would be too high I think for access via a window in the wall of the existing gas locker, so I can only think that I would have to make a small sealable door from inside the van. There is also a gauge on the top of the bottle which shows how much is left once you get below half full - the door would also need to reveal this. Having lost some interior storage space I would now have gained the whole of the gas-locker (it currently holds 2 x 907 bottles so it's quite roomy!).
Why go to all this trouble and expense (about £200) ?? - Well, Camping Gaz costs about £6.50 a kg compared with autogas at just over £1 - and the bottle can be filled at any time - no minimum quantity. So it's break even after about 14 bottles. For me that's about 3 years . . . mmmmmm. . . . . has anyone else thought along these lines? Of course there would be considerably less to gain for those using Calor Gas.
This may turn out to be one of my many mad ideas - for a start I don't have a spare 200 quid to throw away at the moment!! - and the thought of cutting out pieces of Romahome . . !?!?!?!
Keith
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Post by Graham on Sept 25, 2009 11:12:33 GMT
We have had two Duo's the first without toilet option and the second with, I certainly wouldn't have wanted to lose the toilet option in the second van, but as you say you haven't got the toilet option I guess its a matter of weighing up whether it's worth losing the extra cupboard space which as you know is at a premium in Romahomes. As regards gas usage I suppose after the three years are up and you start saving money you will be glad you did. The other factor is whether you will still have the van after 3 years, every van we have bought we have said that we wouldn't want another one and it would last us for as long as we want it, then we see something else that takes our fancy.......  Best of luck in whatever you decide. Graham |
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wheelmon
50+ posts.... 3 wheels on my wagon!
Posts: 51
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Post by wheelmon on Sept 27, 2009 22:17:28 GMT
Thanks Graham for your quick reaction to my ramblings. I know just what you mean about length of ownership - in the last 10 yrs we've had 7 different camping outfits, although now we're both OAP's the Duo may be here to stay!
I find the attraction in my latest whim to be the convenience as much as the monetry saving. In North Wales this year it wasn't easy to find a Camping Gaz outlet and when I did it was £20!!.
I must say though that I was glad to have that type in France where Calor seems to be non-existant - I haven't researched autogas there yet.
Whilst away in the van 2 days ago the Gaz ran out and I changed over to the full bottle. Usually the new gas takes over and the fridge and hob light normally - not this time! The stove didn't light at all for quite a long time - I could hear the gas hissing out but hardly any smell. In the past I've had to wait quite a few secs while the gas got through or an air pocket cleared but this time the delay was quite alarming (mins rather than secs). Eventually a quarter of the hob burner lit feebly (very small blue flames) - after about 30 secs another quarter lit and so on until the whole burner was lit. After about a minute the flames grew until it burned normally and it has done since. The whole thing took at least 10 mins. At one point I was for giving up through fear of an explosion!! - I kept the back door open throughout. All a mystery to me. Has anyone else had a similar experience?
I just remembered that half way though I changed regulators in case there was a fault there but it made no difference. Also I might add that it was quite a mild morning so no freezing problems.
Keith
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, so I'm downgrading to trailor tent hopefully!
